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Old 02-06-2011   #1
HomerMAC
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Tunning....

Well, I saw this part of the forum and realized there are no threads... So what do you guys run for tuning.. and where do you go locally for tuning.

Reccomend anyone for Emanage Ultimate?
I know Vadim does it. but anyone else?
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Old 02-06-2011   #2
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Re: Tunning....

In for suggestions as I will be needing my car tuned in the summer.
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Old 02-07-2011   #3
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Re: Tunning....

so will i after i install wut i have....will be keeping a close eye on this thread if anyone suggests something!
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Old 02-07-2011   #4
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Re: Tunning....

There are a lot of different products you can use. Emanage ultimate, Aem FIC, Aem EMS, Utec, etc. It all depends on your setup. For your setup (homermac) I would recommend going with the aem fic. I got a chance to play around with one of those and its a really good product.
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Old 02-07-2011   #5
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Re: Tunning....

find your tuner that you trust and like...
ask that tuner what he recommend you getting.
install it and have this tuner tune it.

this way the tuner will know the software and knows how to use it...even trouble shoot if needed.
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Old 02-07-2011   #6
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Re: Tunning....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismomaxgtr18 View Post
In for suggestions as I will be needing my car tuned in the summer.
you don't need a tune after your ebay intake install.
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Old 02-07-2011   #7
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Re: Tunning....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanNY View Post
find your tuner that you trust and like...
ask that tuner what he recommend you getting.
install it and have this tuner tune it.

this way the tuner will know the software and knows how to use it...even trouble shoot if needed.
True but the difficult part is finding a tuner.

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you don't need a tune after your ebay intake install.
HAHAHAHA shhhh. I have a STOCK intake!!
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Old 02-07-2011   #8
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Re: Tunning....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismomaxgtr18 View Post
True but the difficult part is finding a tuner.



HAHAHAHA shhhh. I have a STOCK intake!!
no the difficult part is finding a good tuner that WORKS with what you have.
tuners are every where. but each have their stand alone that they work on. get what they are most familiar with will net you good results w/ that tuner.
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Old 02-08-2011   #9
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Re: Tunning....

The AEM FIC is a great unit. I have seen and played with it a bit. It is great for getting a car up and running great with Forced induction. However It does lack options that the EU has.

Finding a tuner I "trust" is very hard, as i dont trust anyone to work on my car. Only a handful of people. I think the EU offers everything I am looking for. It helps me centralize a lot of options I would have to otherwise add relays, window switches etc. for.

The AEM fic is great and I wont dismiss that. BUT the EU simply has a few more options. Especially being able to hold two internal maps. Along with a handful more User configurable options.

Finding a tuner as in with a dyno etc. I really dont want anyone to tune my car. I have gotten this far asking questions, reading.. reading some more.

I dont think you should use a tuning medium based on what your tuner knows. I think it is more build specific, then finding a tuner. I know a lot of people here are runnign e-manage. Where do you guys go for dyno time?
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Old 02-08-2011   #10
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Re: Tunning....

i have a aem uego with a safc2 ... do 4th gear pulls and video the uego to see where my afr is at at what rpm...then at mr rpm set points i tune from their =)
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Old 02-12-2011   #11
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Re: Tunning....

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Originally Posted by NISSAN 4 LIFE View Post
i have a aem uego with a safc2 ... do 4th gear pulls and video the uego to see where my afr is at at what rpm...then at mr rpm set points i tune from their =)

.. yea.. that is another aspect of the EU I love.. THE datalogging.

But the video/rpm/af is a great method for AFC. Or have someone do the driving while you mess around with it.. but then again.. finding a trust worthy driver is worse than a trust worthy tuner/mechanic.
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Old 02-25-2011   #12
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Re: Tunning....

"Tuners" of piggyback systems, targeting a AFR is not tuning. There are general guidelines for afrs being lean/rich or ideal for na/boost applications, does not mean its producing power. I can't say this enough, before tuning, always make sure all your check engine lamp problems are resolved. Most of the enthusiasts vehicles that are seeking a piggyback tune are approaching 16 years old. Take care of oil leaks, air leaks etc. Learn to read your spark plugs, you'd be damm surprised on how much power/ response can be gained on different heat ranges and closing gaps depending on applications. Even when you decide to go to a dyno, do an oil change, use a good filter, make sure all your fluids are in good shape. Want peak numbers ? make sure your car is running in peak condition first. Don't be disappointed in tuning a piggyback, it isn't easy. There are downfalls from simple fuel controllers to FIC and EU. Its called factory ECU logic, especially its oxygen sensor compensation or self learn or in OBDII terms, long term fuel trim (LTFT) and short term fuel trim(STFT). Scenario, most cars on factory program run rich to prevent engine damage, and to get the power you need to "lean" out right ? so you lean out lean out, and great you made a few hp, and since your oxygen sensors are telling the ecu its out of range no no no, ecu logic adds more fuel which kills your power. There is a compromise in targeting fuel trims to fool the factory ecu to think everything is cool. This has been discussed previously for certain products, some easy to use, some not so easy. Simple fuel controllers cannot perform these operations, and so the urban myth began that my tune feels stock, wtf ? The more you as a owner understand, the better for tuner and others around you.
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Old 02-25-2011   #13
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Re: Tunning....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo_star View Post
"Tuners" of piggyback systems, targeting a AFR is not tuning...
There is a compromise in targeting fuel trims to fool the factory ecu to think everything is cool. This has been discussed previously for certain products, some easy to use, some not so easy. Simple fuel controllers cannot perform these operations, and so the urban myth began that my tune feels stock, wtf ? The more you as a owner understand, the better for tuner and others around you.

first and foremost, I agree with the whole having a propper functioning car. You are wasting your money if you dyno etc, with a car that isnt running optimally. Not just fluids but, even suspension has to be in good working condition. The car has to have good contact with the dyno. A poor running machine is a danger to even tune as it could catch fire, and bring the whole house down.

Now second. Under MY IMPRESSION, I thought that the EU, FIC ... even VAFC are looking to mod the WOT fuel/ air etc. as it is a set "map". Under closed loop conditions, the ECU/O2 system would compensate and manipulate the fuel/air needed to keep engine running "efficent".

I also was reading ABOUT the FIC and how it is better with obd2 cars as it works with the factory ECU. You had mentioned before about manipulating the factory O2 sensors using the wideband.
I was a little... well a lot, confused by this.

Did you mean that you get the wideband to give you/FIC A:F ratio, and then set up the FIC to send a corresponding signal to the OEM ECU's O2 input. There by giving your somewhat of a control which keeps the ECU from adjusting up and down on its own.

Since the piggy back intercepts./manipulates etc. doesnt it send signals that the ECU would like to see or should see? while chaning things in the background to compensate for the mods you have. **I am confused after readign this again my self.**

PLEASE explain this. I AM at a lost as to what you were saying. I was just gonna bring it up with you in person cause I cant even exlpain myself well.

Also, targeting A:F is what I thought was a baseline to get a car running somewhat "efficent" with the mods? Obviously the amount of fuel for the air is not only thing to consider with the newer engines with Variable Timing etc.. Working out timing and other things to fine tune would result in a better tune and unlock power.

What more is there to look at, granted a proper working engine? Obviously you cant sum up everything in post on nyc.org, but can you shine light onto what else should be looked at?

Last edited by HomerMAC; 02-25-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011   #14
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Re: Tunning....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerMAC View Post
...I thought that the EU, FIC ... even VAFC are looking to mod the WOT fuel/ air etc. as it is a set "map". Under closed loop conditions, the ECU/O2 system would compensate and manipulate the fuel/air needed to keep engine running "efficent".

I also was reading ABOUT the FIC and how it is better with obd2 cars as it works with the factory ECU. You had mentioned before about manipulating the factory O2 sensors using the wideband.
I was a little... well a lot, confused by this.

Did you mean that you get the wideband to give you/FIC A:F ratio, and then set up the FIC to send a corresponding signal to the OEM ECU's O2 input. There by giving your somewhat of a control which keeps the ECU from adjusting up and down on its own.

Since the piggy back intercepts./manipulates etc. doesnt it send signals that the ECU would like to see or should see? while chaning things in the background to compensate for the mods you have. **I am confused after readign this again my self.**

PLEASE explain this. I AM at a lost as to what you were saying. I was just gonna bring it up with you in person cause I cant even exlpain myself well.

Also, targeting A:F is what I thought was a baseline to get a car running somewhat "efficent" with the mods? Obviously the amount of fuel for the air is not only thing to consider with the newer engines with Variable Timing etc.. Working out timing and other things to fine tune would result in a better tune and unlock power.

What more is there to look at, granted a proper working engine? Obviously you cant sum up everything in post on nyc.org, but can you shine light onto what else should be looked at?
You nearly answered your own question, your thoughts on a piggyback system will manipulate a signal, but the changes made on a piggyback affect the OEM ECUs program at all times open or closed loop. That has always been the reason that piggybacks "fight" those settings that have been inputted on "simple fuel controllers." Yes they modify signals, but OEM programs have parameters, it sees that there is a lack of airflow, so it fires less fuel (when you lean out settings on a simple fuel controller) the flip side is on the o2s it sees a leaner condition from what the factory had intended. The ecu says o...shit add fuel SAVE THE ENGINE !!! (AFRs are also a sort of litmus paper for heat production in an engine, leaner = hotter and richer = cooler. Most OEMs err towards richer.) The addition of fuel or subtraction of fuel is fuel trim, short term fuel trim is a constantly changing value when driving, while long term fuel trim is the average of all the changes. The compromise was to tune on a piggyback and keep the stft/ltft as low as possible, as I've seen uneducated "tuners" have fried electronic components with outrageous settings.

Understanding how O2s work. There are two ranges 0-1v and 0-5v its a matter of "resolution" each of those represent AFRs of 20:1 to 10:1. somewhere in the middle of both ranges is 14.7:1 afr. Need to know which range your O2 fits into. (There are other sensors out there that reference in mV as well. I wont get into those.) Most of the time 0-1V range is what you will see. The wideband is 0-5V, at least with a higher resolution, you can see what the OEM oxygen sensor reads at certain AFR, if you can datalog it all correctly. You will be able to figure out what a specific voltage for the O2 is for a specific AFR, and compare it to a stock run you will be able to create your own AFR target plots, this is just one part of the tuning puzzle.... more later on...
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